Андрей Запорожец (5'NIZZA, SUNSAY)| Как доводить дела до конца| Путь сердца #5

ruticker 02.03.2025 12:34:32

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I remember, when I was a kid, and I would start singing, people would always listen to me singing. If we talk about true creativity, a person should not be constrained by anything. It is really important to understand what to get involved into and what to take upon yourself. But if you take up something, to be a warrior means to get the job done. When someone is concreted, it takes a major blow with a sledge-hammer to ‘unconcrete’ him or her. It brings liberation immediately, you feel fresh, and something comes to you, it goes through you in a flow. ♪ Mom, I do not want to see the world like that Mom, I do not want to see the world like that I don’t want to see this world like that ♪ How did you feel for the first time in your life that it is something meant for you? That you are where you should be and that you are ready to devote your life to this? Do you feel it at all? I never asked myself that question – devoting life to something – to be honest. I remember, when I was a kid, and I would start singing, people would always listen to me singing. At first, I saw some elderly women at the door when I was five. They listened. Then there were some other people. Then I used to sing at school. And people were like, ‘he’s a weird guy, but he sings something’. I used to sing other people’s songs, later I started to write my own. When singing, I never asked any questions. I was just doing it in a flow. In fact, it’s the same thing now. Did you feel really good when you were singing? I felt it that yes, here it comes, cool. It’s some kind of immediate liberation, you feel fresh, and something comes to you, it goes through you in this flow. You see people, and I really feel people, I feel what exactly to give them and how, and how much. I used to do it with my eyes closed, and now I look at people – giving a little, taking a little, giving and taking, it’s an exchange. At first, you give a lot, then you get yourself together. It’s a whole delicate game, a very interesting one. I mean concerts and interaction with people when I’m on stage. With studios, it’s different; in the studio, you are completely immersed in the state of what you want to communicate. You dive into this state as delicately and intently. That’s it. It doesn’t matter what it looks like or whether there’s feedback. This is a process of focusing on the sound and on the inside. Many people know when you are in the right place, you understand it, there is a flow in you, and you are ready to direct this flow from the stage. And when you are definitely in the wrong place, people also know this. This affects a series of events when the world literally closes down. And the people who found themselves, they say that they knew for sure that they were in the right place, they take responsibility for their lives. They understand that they are full to overflowing; they can share it as much as they like. It’s a flow that knows no boundaries. How do you feel that you are in your right place, that you didn’t go the wrong way, for example? Maybe you could share some tips? Of course, this is a never-ending and ever-changing path. I sometimes feel the same way that I am not quite where I should be, but I have a clear sense of when to turn, when I have to leave, when I have to say no. I try to intuit it. It seems to me that the fundamental issue is that of benefit. If you do something, no matter what, what matters is that what you do is beneficial. And then synergy enters the game. You gave something to the world, there is some result from this, for example, and you are given the opportunity to give something. And it’s coming back to you. It is an exchange with the world. If we are only talking about personal fulfillment in terms of profession, this is only one part of life. There are many other parts of life that are also important. When there is a moment to pause, for example, when there is a moment to give something to your children, there is a moment to learn. At some point, you learn, at some point, you teach. And then when you teach, you learn too. So it's ever-changing. As for your music, I’m personally familiar with it, so it was very interesting for me to talk to you. I remember when growing up and evolving I listened to your music a lot, and you inspired me. I understand it that when one can transmit an impulse to another to inspire, it means that this is the very flow that is pouring. I really understand that the issue of destination is an abstract, broad topic. I understand that there is a biological purpose. We were born in the body of a man, some come in the body of a woman. And this, too, is the destination of being a woman. This is also a social destination. What is it in this world that I can do best? Through what can I fulfill myself most, for example, at this stage of life? I also understand that there are karmic tasks, as Vedic astrology says, these are the lessons that I have to learn for my life, those mistakes I keep making, stumbling. And so I wanted to ask, how do you feel this? Could you say what it means for you? Is this even a thing? Destination… I really like the principle of spontaneity. When you proceed from a situation, and the less egoism, the less attachments we have, the more we can correspond to this flow that keeps going every second. And to be in this flow is the mission of every person. At some point, we are addicted to material things – the world offers us a lot. And we can get very disappointed. First, we are charmed, then – disappointed. But we only experience happiness when we can share with other people in a flow of spontaneity. Or we can accumulate, contemplate. And, of course, spiritual practices help, and they provide the foundation. To be in this flow, you must first feel. For a person who has at least once tasted it, losing this connection is tantamount to death. Life becomes meaningless if the connection with the eternal is lost. The flow is eternal. The body wears out, dies, and the flow remains. It is the essence. And it’s always at the disposal of any person. People are often so eager for other things. And I do not blame them. It’s just a stage. Many people even bring a lot of evil and destruction, and they do this simply because they do not understand. They can even do this on purpose. If they just understood and felt the whole unity of this world to the point that if you hurt someone, you would still feel it. If you see the world like that, then you understand something and you are able to share it. It seems to me that creativity has been given to us precisely for this purpose, so that we share our understanding. But to have this understanding, you need to practice daily. There are different ways, of course, people can come to this through any religion. Maybe there is even someone who is able to go the atheistic way, or any other, it doesn't matter. It is important for a person to be alive, alive and open. What we call it doesn’t matter. It is important that the person acts and that what he does has meaning. You sometimes feel that you did it on time and it was the very thing that had to be done then. I don’t know how else to describe it. You just talked about practice. Maybe you have some kind of your own practice that helps you in your daily life. Sure. I have been practicing Zen meditation since I was 18 years old. This is the foundation. I do it several times every day, no matter what. And now I‘ve also taken up some practices from Tibetan Buddhism. So these two build up, and it’s an interesting combination. Such two different traditions. It gives me some incredible harmony, and while practicing, I feel at times that there are a lot of, say, enlightened beings, or whatever we call them, they were all human beings. According to Buddhism, all these enlightened beings were born just like us, in the bodies of people, they became enlightened, and they are an example. And at any time when we turn to them, they help a lot. Besides just meditation, which does not require any special conditions, Zen meditation is just me sitting down, and here is a piece of dragon fruit, and I can, for example, sit and sit for half an hour and contemplate this piece of dragon fruit. No rituals, no special clothes are needed for this. But I train my concentration. And in the same way, if I get down to some business, whatever it is, I will bring it to the end. If we decide to do something, we do it, we bring it to the end. Otherwise, it makes no sense even to start. It is really important to understand what to get involved into and what to take upon yourself. But if you take up something, to be a warrior means to get the job done. This is your key to success, as I see it. Maintaining focus on the task. Yes. It so happened for some reason that, at least, the people I meet, mainly those who ask questions about destination and about their place in this universe, about the meaning of life, for some reason many of those people are unhappy. Or they have gone through some difficult experience, traumatic experiences, and they cannot live any other way. I know that there are those who simply open up their lives gradually. My wife, she’s just being led somehow. Did you face some difficult experience in your life before that process of finding yourself? Some difficult, traumatic experience? Or was it all just smooth? I would not say there was something very extreme in my life. But there were, naturally, some disappointments, ups and downs, lots of them, very different. There were drugs. There was a very hectic sex life. A lot of superfluous experiences. In general, some friends, some people with whom, perhaps, at that time it was fun and interesting for me to communicate. Now I understand that I was sidetracked by all this. But it all clears out when a person has a connection with the source. You just don’t need it anymore. You do not get rid of anyone in your life; you are not running away. It just so happens that what you should attract is attracted and what you do not attract is not attracted. You begin to actually manage the space. This is what we are learning. As for some kind of traumatic experience, I don’t know, maybe there wasn’t any hardcore stuff in my life. I know many of my friends who experienced just terrible things, even in the movies they don’t show it sometimes. Although no, they now show everything in the movies. So, people really have some very tough situations. When someone is concreted, it takes a major blow with a sledge-hammer to ‘unconcrete’ him or her. For some, a little breeze is enough. The breeze blew – you're like, ‘OK, OK, that's it, I'm not going back.’ And some people need to be smashed, to almost crack, so that later on they could realize what it was all about. That is how karma works. People who are energetic and strong have big obstacles. The stronger you become, the life becomes no easier. But it’s still within your powers. If there is a lot of strength, there may be opposition, there may be some difficult situations. Sometimes you need to show courage, decisiveness; sometimes you just need to do nothing at all, wait it out. This is the uniqueness of each situation. But we all pull through. There are no such super-lucky people who would do nothing at all, and everything would come to them just like that. There are people who are born with a high energy charge and who have lots of natural talents. And there are people who need to work a lot, who can work for days, work hard, and may not see results and fruits in this life. This also happens. A person needs to work and work and work, and then results may come at the most unexpected moment. But again, striving for the result initially… If you believe in the spontaneity of the moment, then why think about the result? You just do what you do here and now. And that’s it. Doing it as if it were the last time. That’s the only way. Because this may be the last time. How many actors passed away right on stage! And artists and musicians. And they did what they did till the very end. They passed away right in the process. There are the lucky ones, like you, for example, who felt from early years through their singing that they were in the right place. But there is someone who’s worked, for example, in the office for years and understands that he is not in the right place, but he cannot leave, because he has some huge responsibilities, a whole load, a backpack of responsibilities, and he is afraid to step into the abyss, into the unknown. And such people ask the question – how to at least probe, what to start with? How to understand what your talent is? There are a lot of interesting things. But how do you find your own course? It takes courage. Courage, of course. I studied at a medical university, my mother wanted me to be a doctor, my family are all doctors. And no one helped me with music, no one told me that I was going to make a great musician. Everyone said, ‘Well, OK, you’re singing, yes, you will sing’. It was not prestigious at that time to be a musician. It was a long time ago. Back then, everyone did not seek to go to the Voice show. I myself didn’t know that I’d be a musician. I can’t say that I definitely foresaw and believed that everything would work out. I had no idea. I hung out, talked with the actors, I sang to the guitar in the dormitory with the guys, I was like everyone else. For some reason, I studied at a medical university, although I met some wonderful friends there, we are still in touch. It also made sense; it is part of my destiny. Nothing told me – you should be this, this is your destination. At 18, I had no idea that I would be a musician. If we talk about the present, right now, why is there so much of it now – the Voice, the scene? Are people now trying to express themselves creatively? An industry has emerged that allows people to make money. Most people want to become famous and make money, to be honest. That’s it, just industry? The industry has emerged and it works. It pushes people, spurring them. And even children are raised this way – ‘you will be my little star, you will defeat all, come on, Maroussia’. ‘What a voice you have!’ Maybe there is something positive in that too. So Maroussia delivers. I have a question regarding destination, as you say. Is this about fulfillment? Can I say that? That is, the destination is equal to the fulfillment. There are people you look at and see – they are fulfilled. That is, I can say that Andrey is a fulfilled musician, he is in his place. And there are many such people, not necessarily musicians; there are different people. There is a concept of **ikigai** in Japan. You know, right? Four things should be in focus. First, you love what you do. People need it. You get paid for it. And you do it professionally, you do it pretty cool. If these four aspects coincide, in fact, these are four circles, and in the center there is synergy. When I drew ikigai myself, I looked for my ikigai to see what I am. If one part falls out, something is wrong, something’s wrong. Yes, I basically mean it, fulfillment. It seems to me that now many people, as I think, have a certain need. They’ve satisfied some basic needs – e.g. financial, they can afford a lot of things. They want to express themselves now. They want to express themselves. There are people who spend millions of dollars on studios, they form bands, pay to all these good musicians and do gigs when ... I know a lot of such projects, that is, some big businessmen, they want it, they do it, they haven't played enough in childhood, they form bands and as adults they play their very strange music. Sometimes they give concerts for free, I don’t know if they pay people to come. Ticket salary. Perhaps it could be the case. I wouldn’t be surprised. This also happens. That’s also some kind of approach. I don’t know. If we talk about true creativity, then a person should not be constrained by anything. He can do this simply by expressing himself. If you are a professional, if this is your profession, it is different; then you have to work very hard to be up to standard, so that it could inspire. This is a different approach. In fact, when you create, there is no big difference, but then life itself gives you a clue. If you see that it unfolds like this for you, and there are more and more people coming, they like what you do. What you just said, if this component is in place, then this is a profession. If not, then why doesn't a person write songs? You can write songs without restricting yourself to any expectations. Nobody wants or expects anything from you. No one will be disappointed. You just write songs, sing them to your family, friends. Maybe you sing to nobody. It's probably best to share this. It seems to me that like-minded people will appreciate it. I have seen a lot of people who are very sincere. Suppose I understand that this person is not an artist, but he does something, and it touches, because it is done from the heart. And I saw a huge number of musicians with incredible vocal skills, those who devoted half their lives to the development of purely technical skills, and what they do does not catch me at all. Because the main component there is me, myself, and I. ‘I'll show you now, give me money, I want, look – here I am’. Such an approach. There are a lot of even stars with this approach. They think so. When you talk to them, you begin to understand that they most probably think like this. And I feel like immediately going aside somewhere. I just heard about hobbies. In fact, I know many people whose hobbies turned into a profession. That is, people changed their professions and found their true calling. That’s also possible. That is, at first you think you are a businessman, and then you try something else, begin to practice and practice it step by step, and then you get more and more of this in your life. You realize that you only want to do this now. And you leave the bank. By the way, this thing is quite clear to me. Hobby is usually about sincerity. And wherever your energy flows, exactly, you know that it makes you feel great, which means you can devote a lot of time to this. And what you become a master at, if you devote a lot of time, you become useful to people, you carry value, and they are ready to come and pay you. This is ikigai. It seems to me that ikigai is about a lifework, about a certain social fulfillment. If we take the example of Mother Teresa, it wasn’t about money for her; she just felt her place, next to those lepers in Calcutta. Yes, there were 10 thousand people that she was just a mother to because they were suffering, they were in pain. Was she in her place if she fulfilled her destiny? I think she was absolutely in her place. I know the story that they came to her at some point and said, ‘Teresa, your mother is at death’s door, she calls you’. Only a few days were left, and she had problems with the visa regime. And if she had left, she wouldn’t have been able to return. And she decides that she is a mother for many people who suffer, and she decides to stay. And this is about the destination. And this isn’t about monetary compensation. I think it’s a very delicate question. Destination is about many things, about your place in this universe. Yes. And you, by the way, are you a doctor after all? Did you get a diploma? Yes, I have an unconfirmed diploma; I have never worked. Well, can you provide some medical assistance right here if something happens? Some minimum, probably, but in general, I don’t have very much knowledge, to be honest. I did not study well. But even then you felt that it wasn’t meant for you? From the first day. But you graduated. Made it to the end. Just as I did with the law faculty. My first education. I brought that diploma home and gave it to my parents. Listen, I'll do a high-five anyway. To be honest, I left immediately, after the first month of the textile. I said, ‘Mom, I entered, you asked, I did it, I'm sorry, I do not want to be a mechanic’. Well, the problem is, probably, partially – the lack of contact with parents, the real connection. It seems to me, it is so important for parents to see talents in children and to develop and help. To actually look at their children and ask them what they want. Instead of ‘you will be this or that’. Unfulfilled projection of the father or the mother. Well no, parents always want to help. They try their best, but not everyone can actually feel the children and see something in them; only some can. I would really like to be a parent like that. But how do you become such a parent? How do you do it? How to recognize exact talent in your child? Is it just by trial and error? Try this, this, this. My daughter just says to me specifically, ‘Dad, I want this and this, I have this, I’ll be a blogger, I also need this, I need an account, let’s go now’. She’s just pulling you in; she is very concrete. Children are different. I can advise her something, but now at the age of 11, she doesn’t accept some things at all; she laughs at me, considers me to be some kind of weird, strange dad who talks about some enlightened beings. She goes like, ‘I’m a banana, I’m a banana. All is an illusion, all is an illusion’. She laughs at me. Have you somehow managed to discern any of her strengths? I already see her qualities. From the age of 3, you can see qualities. Now, in fact, everything is different. Children were always given a lot of things so that they could try music, painting, and if that worked for them, continued to do it. And if it didn’t go well with sculpture, then maybe there was no need for it. And so children themselves could try and choose. On the other hand, there is an issue of discipline. In general, to be a master, you need… remember how parents used to torture many of us, they forced me to play the piano, and I did not like it. To be honest, I never learned it. But I used to play as a child, then it happened so that I did not master it. Teachers are also important. In case of piano, it also takes determination, discipline; sometimes even a person may not like it, but it must be done. If you are a child, children do not like to sit and play the piano; nobody likes it. ‘Yes, dad, I’ll sit and play the piano for hours, yes’ – did any of the pianists say that? Maybe there were some, but I don’t know any. Look, well, here it is laced with Maybe if she doesn’t like it, it may be because her heart isn’t in it. Maybe she likes something else, but she doesn’t know it yet, because her parents push her the other way. No, you shouldn’t push. But in order to learn at least something, efforts are needed. Nobody can do great stuff right away. A person may have abilities, you can clearly see that he has abilities, but if he does not work… Well, someone needs to work less, someone needs more. But even if a person is very talented and does nothing, then there will be nothing. This is about ten thousand hours. Right. I like this theory. Practice, actually. Do you always get to hear your real self? Separate yourself from what you are not? I think it’s hard to keep track of it. It just happens that you are carried away by something, some negative aspects reveal themselves. Then you see it and think, “Damn it, wow.” The next time you think about how to stop on time so as not to get carried away somewhere, for example. To be honest, this happens less now. As it seems to me. I’m no longer carried away so much because there is some kind of inner core and a feeling of who I really am. In music, can you track when it was for real and where you were yourself and where there was less of it, less sincerity, less you, for example? Can you identify this moment for yourself in your music? You know, I think I’ve never done anything completely insincere. I have not done anything insincere in life. However, there are different manifestations in me. 5’Nizza was about fooling around; there was an element of such Kharkov carelessness in that, because we were young and free. And now this, probably, is also somewhere in me, but it does not dominate me. It may appear somewhere a little, but on the whole, it’s much less typical for me now. It’s just that I’ve experienced so many things already, and my social circle has changed a lot; I already feel everything. There is absolutely no aggression in me. I mean, there could be some disagreement with some aspects of life; it happens, of course, something happens and you feel some kind of reaction inside; it happens. I’m well past the stage where I wanted to teach someone. It was a strong desire. I discovered something, now I will show you. Here is the path. Here it is. It passed too. It’s an ongoing process. You cut something off, you try something, go into new territory. I made the last two songs with an orchestra, with pipes, with violins, with cellos. It is all so sublime, beautiful. At the same time, there is still partly an element of blues and soul, something that I really love. In our last video, Vladimir Varnava is dancing, a wonderful dancer. The release was the day before yesterday. Yes, right, a new video. It’d be interesting, by the way, to show it to you. It’s all kind of retro and it also enters some new territories, where I have not been yet. It’s really interesting for me. What I consider art, what I am inspired by, it seems to me that it is so cool; I am attracted to this. I understand that I can long for it for a lifetime. But I do what I can the way I can and attract people who are good at something, who can make an arrangement for the string orchestra, for example. The most important movie and book? Something that rocked your world, that you could share. I’d be happy to share. I’ve recently watched a movie by Alejandro Jodorowsky. This is, for sure, the whole universe. The first one for me was *The Dance of Reality*. He shoots these trilogies, he makes them very rarely. An amazing person. I watched his interview. I watched his address when he was raising funds for his latest film; have you seen it? We watched it with tears. We just sat with tears in our eyes, watched and simply did not believe that this could even happen. The man is simply a brilliant director, absolutely. There is no one like him. He's one of a kind. And there will never be anyone like him. And he asks for money. This is such subtle high art that in general it’s non-profit filmmaking at all. It is very beautiful, colorful; many people would like it, but sometimes it is, of course, very strange, shocking. And I saw people leaving the cinema because it was too much for them. But this is all justified anyway. Everything he uses, these shocking methods, they lead to something; this is therapy. And he is also a healer. He is an incredible person, an absolutely brilliant artist. And his address touched us so much that he needed money to complete that film. It's just that we live in these times when there is money in advertising, as much as you want, huge budgets, here you are, here you go. But with real art, a person has to ask for money. I recommend it – look it up, find it, you have to see it. He doesn't have many films. They are all very unique, complex, beautiful, psychologically profound. This is true therapy. He calls it *psychomagic*. *Psychomagic?* He has a book. Alejandro Jodorowsky, *Psychomagic*. And this book really blew my mind last year. This is great. I didn’t know there was a book. It’d be very interesting to read it. Thinking back, on my way here to Bali, I watched the beautiful film *Life Itself*. I don’t know how it was translated into Russian. *Life as it is?* Maybe in a different way. It is relatively new. I don’t remember who the director is, unfortunately, but the film is very beautiful, deep, interesting. About people, about relationships, about the interconnection of parents. Different stories, interweaving of fates. To be honest, it reminded me of the film by a Spanish director, *Chaotic Ana* by Julio Medem, if I'm not mistaken. I could be wrong. Very good, powerful movie. It is piercing, it is deep, blunt, beautiful; I get goosebumps when thinking of this. Well, of course, I like Jim Jarmusch and Wim Wenders and all these guys who are still, fortunately... His documentaries, which he now makes, I'm more into directors. Because if you like a director, it’s rare that a good director suddenly makes a bad movie. It may be more commercial or less commercial. But great directors do not make bad films. They can afford to express what they want. I really liked the last movie by Terry Gilliam, *The Man Who Killed Don Quixote*. They ran it in cinema recently. This is just mind-blowing. It is very funny, quite unexpected. Terry Gilliam is even so grotesque, but very cool. Not brutal at all. Not brutal, that’s the point. It is somehow so very wise, somewhat funny. There is more of a subtext to it. A book, maybe? Yes, we were just talking about books. Yes, I’ve been reading a lot of books. I’ve had a period of passion for Leo Tolstoy, just recently. It was the last… I have a badge on this side. Yes, yes, that's why I’m pointing there. This was the last time I took interest. After that, I again read a lot of teachers. I am interested in the books of people as close to enlightenment as possible or the enlightened, in what they left. This is also an art. Sometimes it just applies to life so well that you are right away… Sometimes it gives you the benchmark of a higher state of consciousness. These books are like the abyss of wisdom. They are so comprehensive, they have no limits. They fully manifest. Therefore, these books are very valuable for those who practice, those who are willing to change their lives, who are receptive. It is necessary to directly penetrate into modern life. This is important and helpful. That’s why I went to this battle of videos, although I’m not into it, but I’m interested to see how it works, these guys, rap battles. Everyone is brutal there, everyone is swearing. This is also funny. This is such a game. Such a game now. People get involved in this, they are interested. And I watched the battles. I like the way Oxxxymiron raps in general; it's very cool. He is a great fellow. A talented person. Great poet, really. My daughter is interested in all this hype that is happening now. I wonder what my Sonya is watching. I’m curious, really. I don’t like much, but I like some stuff. I want to stay tuned. To feel this world and resonate with it. But at the same time, you shouldn’t simply buy into it. If we calculate now what’s in fashion at the moment, well, then we will play Korean pop. Set up a band, paint our bangs red. Paint the bangs red. I'm a bit too old for this game, of course. But, never mind. Japanese blues. Japanese blues, yes. And you need to be a blogger. And broadcast your whole life. We just understand that the world is like this. We shouldn’t deny it. Or grumble, ‘back in my day… Alejandro Jodorowsky, that’s classy, and you all are just nobody’. It is arrogant sometimes. And while using modern methods, you can express what you want.

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