Operation Night Watch: Research and Treatment of Rembrandt’s The Night Watch in the Rijksmuseum

ruticker 04.03.2025 23:47:59

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- Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Irma Passeri, and I'm a painting conservator at the Yale University Art Gallery. It's a great pleasure for me to introduce our speaker today, Petria Noble, head of paintings conservation at the Rijksmuseum. Petria, originally from Australia, undertook postgraduate training at the Institute of Fine Arts, New York University, following an internship at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. She was appointed conservator of paintings at the M Museum in The Hague in 1996. She took up her current position as head of paintings conservation at the Rijksmuseum in 2014, where she initiated the department's expansion, emphasizing scientific analysis and the treatment history of paintings. Over the past 25 years, Petria has treated numerous paintings by Rembrandt van Rijn in the collection of the Mauritshuis and the Rijksmuseum, including his iconic *The Anatomy Lesson of Dr. Nicolaes Tulp*. Since 2019, her research focus has been on Rembrandt's iconic painting *The Night Watch*. In addition, she has published numerous articles on Rembrandt's materials and painting technique and how these aspects contribute to a deeper understanding of works of art. Petria's work and research have been instrumental in the field of art conservation and art history. Petria's keynote lecture today is part of the 2022 Summer Teacher Institute in Technical Art History, known to all of us as STITAH, an intense week-long professional development program for 15 university instructors in the history of art, studio art, and the sciences. The Samuel Kress Foundation has generously sponsored the workshop, co-organized by the Yale University Art Gallery, the Yale Center for British Art, and the Yale IPCH; the Institute for the Preservation of Culture Heritage. Following the lecture, Jessica David, senior painting conservator at the Yale Center for British Art, and I will be monitoring the questions. So please join me in welcoming Petria Noble to the podium. --- - So good afternoon, everyone. And thank you, Irma, for the very nice introduction. It's a pleasure to be here. Starting in the summer of 2019, Rembrandt's famous painting *The Night Watch* was investigated in the galleries in the Rijksmuseum as part of a project called Operation *Night Watch*, which is the biggest research project that the painting has ever undergone. The 1642 group portrait of the officers and other members of the civic guard, known as *The Night Watch*, is Rembrandt's largest extant painting and also his most ambitious painting. *The Night Watch* belongs to the city of Amsterdam and has been the highlight of the Rijksmuseum collection. The architect of the Rijksmuseum building, Pierre Cuypers, even created a dedicated gallery of honor for *The Night Watch*, and the painting is admired there by more than 2 million people annually. The painting was commissioned to decorate the Kloveniersdoelen of this civic guard, the great hall on the ground floor, along with six other large format paintings painted between 1639 and 1645. In this digital impression, we see here on the right, the painting is on the long wall facing the windows. As part of Operation *Night Watch*, the painting was investigated between 2019 and 2021 by a team of scientists, conservators, and curators, along with many other museum professionals and communicators from other departments. Using the latest and most advanced techniques, ranging from digital imaging and scientific technical research to computer science and artificial intelligence, this included high-resolution, visible light photography at five and 20 micron resolution. I've lost my image on the screen here at the podium, but I'll just go on and look at the images on the large screen. So, like I said, this included high-resolution, visible light photography at five and 20 micron resolution and macro X-ray fluorescence scanning, for which 56 separate scans were made to capture the entire surface of the painting, which took place over the course of several months. Using a multi-scale and multimodal approach, some 25 different research techniques were applied, and more than 52 terabytes of data were collected on the painting. The sheer size of the painting presented enormous logistical challenges, even just covering the glass chamber for the UV light photography. Data stitching and registration of all the different images also presented enormous challenges. The so-called curtain viewer, developed by Robert Erdmann, who was senior scientist at the Rijksmuseum, made it possible to make side-by-side comparisons of the different elemental maps, such as we see here, along with exactly the same visible light detail or the x-ray, for instance. The research phase was crucial in gathering information about the materials and the painting technique, the painting's treatment history, and its true condition in order to provide a sound basis for a responsible decision about its conservation treatment. Whether and how to treat the painting, and what is the best way to ensure the painting's long-term preservation. Part of the motivation right from the start of the project was the concern about a grayish haze that had developed in many dark areas of the painting, as well as the sagging and large-scale deformation, particularly in the upper left corner. Some of the questions posed by the research team included: Was the painting meant to be so dark? How did Rembrandt create his impasto effects? Which pigments were used for the dark shadow areas? How did Rembrandt develop such a large and ambitious composition? The painting's treatment history is extensive and includes some 31 documented treatments, including numerous varnish regenerations, three major restorations, and at least four linings, all of which have left their mark to some degree on the painting. The last lining, which is the third wax resin lining, was carried out in 1975 after the painting was brutally attacked with a knife, in which 13 vertical slashes that penetrated both the original canvas and the lining canvas occurred. The research phase, which was carried out over this period of two and a half years, resulted in two documents: the condition research report, which provided detailed information about the materials and the components that make up the painting along with their condition, and the treatment decision document that I'll go into in more detail later. Researchers and conservators worked in teams to study the images and to interpret the data, and some of the highlights I will share with you today. The canvas support consists of three horizontal strips of medium weight, plain weave canvas. The center strip measures 139 centimeters in width, a standard two L-strip width. The painting was cut down in size when it moved to the Amsterdam Town Hall around 1715. Exactly how much was cut off each side is one of the aspects we're still working on. The three pieces of linen were joined using an overcast stitch, which we see here clearly in the detail of the x-ray on the right. During an earlier lining, the turnover edges of the seam were cut off, causing splits and damages in the seams of the original canvas that we also see here in this high-resolution scan of the x-ray. Next to the 13 cuts in the canvas incurred in 1975, there are also 11 canvas inserts, nine large tears, and numerous other small damages. The x-ray also shows damages such as tattered edges, especially along the upper edge of the canvas. The corners have also been repaired with extra pieces of canvas, like we see at the top right image. In the image at the upper left, the canvas fragments are slightly misplaced, and in the image at the lower right, we see a detail from the bottom edge with two inserts. One of the most interesting findings related to the canvas is the presence of an oil impregnation. These are the sweeping white lines that we see here in this macro x-ray lead map. They are also visible in the x-ray and are associated with the leaded oil that we believe was applied to the front of the canvas instead of a glue size layer. In none of the samples from the painting is there any evidence of a size layer, and that this layer was applied to the front of the canvas accounts for why we see the vertical strainer bar marks in the upper part of the lead distribution map. The preparation layer on the painting is a so-called quartz ground that is essentially composed of quartz, clay minerals, earth pigments, and chalk. Rembrandt used this type of ground for the first time in *The Night Watch*. Was it for economical reasons, or because it offered more flexibility for such a large painting, or was he looking for a way to create more compositional unity by using a relatively dark ground? Rembrandt continued to use the quartz ground as well as other relatively dark grounds for the rest of his career. The layer, which is brown in color, was relatively thick, up to 300 microns. Titanium, from a component claim mineral present in the ground, proved to be a very good marker for imaging the exposed areas of ground in the painting, like we see here in this detail where Rembrandt left some of the ground exposed between the two figures. This detail, the titanium scan is on the right. Also, in this detail of the hand of Sergeant Camp, where the exposed ground was used for the shadows of the fingers, we were able to image the ground so successfully both with macro-XRF and with shortwave infrared, which helped us to really understand what was going on in more complex areas, such as in the dog, which is the image on the left. The dog is on the right in the painting, and also in the foreground of the painting where this large brown area is where the ground is exposed, and in this case, as a result of abrasion of the paint. On top of the ground, Rembrandt laid in the composition with a painted sketch, and typically in Rembrandt paintings, we find a black and/or a brown sketch. This is like what we see here in the false color, shortwave infrared image on the right of the boot of the musketeer to the right of Lieutenant van Ruytenburch. Also, in this shortwave infrared image of the Militia Man. The appearance of the dog was actually very puzzling from the start, and its brown color with the light contours seemed such an odd combination. The macro-XRF mapping, which revealed a very strong signal for calcium, combined with in-depth scientific analysis of paint samples, led us to the conclusion that the odd appearance of the dog is actually due to this chalk-rich light-colored sketch that Rembrandt used to very summarily lay in the dog in combination with abrasion of the overlying paint, where more of the sketch and the brown ground are exposed. The calcium distribution map of the entire painting that we see here is, of course, not all associated with chalk. The element calcium is also associated with other pigments, including bone black and leg pigments. It's actually only in the upper part of the painting where there is essentially only a single layer of iron-rich background paint that we know for certain we were looking at the chalk-rich sketch. In comparing the visible light image with the calcium map, we were also able to see that Rembrandt made a number of changes to the composition. Initially, there were more spears in the background that Rembrandt later painted out, as well as an extra sword, for instance, between the figures of Banning Cocq and van Ruytenburgh. In terms of the materiality, the combination of the brown ground and the light-colored painted sketch is probably one of the most significant innovations. As far as we know, a light-colored sketch has never been found before in Rembrandt paintings. In terms of the palette, there are about 20 pigments that Rembrandt used for painting *The Night Watch*. An exciting find was a new form of an arsenic-containing pigment in the embroidery of van Ruytenburgh's yellow jacket. His costume is the most thickly built-up area in the painting and one of the best preserved. Here we see a cross-section taken from this arsenic-rich area showing the para-realgar. Macro-XRF could also map the blue pigments, azurite and smalt in the painting, one being copper-containing and the other cobalt-containing. Reflectance imaging spectroscopy identified the copper-containing pigment as azurite based on the presence of its characteristic features. This is where it is important to be aware of the limitations and also the strengths of each of these techniques. In this beautiful detail of the tassel on the partisan of van Ruytenburch, we can see whether azurite was used and also the smalt. The blue pigment smalt is a cobalt-containing glass that we often encounter in Rembrandt's paintings, and more often than not, it is very degraded. That is also the case in *The Night Watch*. In this detail from the ammunition boy at the far left of the painting, we see that the socks that show up very strongly in the cobalt XRF map appear very brown in the visible light image. Just how brown or how blue these passages were intended to be is something we're still looking at. Mapping the red lakes in the painting was also extremely successful. Here, for instance, in the sash of Banning Cocq, the vermilion and the red Koch lake are in good condition. But elsewhere, for instance, in the socks of Banning Cocq, the red lake is faded, and the paint appears brown and degraded. We know from research we've carried out on many Rembrandt paintings that brown areas are often composed of complex mixtures containing lakes and smalt, which have lost color over time. In this and many other areas, the various scans show evidence for the presence of red lake. The macro-XRF maps of calcium and potassium, and the visible infrared maps of red cochineal and red cochineal mixed with vermilion. A pan cross-section shown here on the right, taken from a midtown area of the sock, shows the partly faded red lake particles. In fact, several types of red lake have now been identified in *The Night Watch*, including matter, Kermes, and Brazilwood lake, the latter being much more vulnerable to fading and degradation. This is not the case for much of the brown background of *The Night Watch*, which is essentially composed of brown earth pigments. Here we see in a detail of the thinly painted area, a paint cross-section taken from this area shows the buildup of the paint that is essentially composed of castle earth with small additions of bone black, chalk, and iron-containing earth. The architectural details in the background, however, do contain a lot of smalt, which we can image here in the cobalt map. A paint sample from this area shows that in addition to smalt, there is yellow earth, red earth, and bone and ivory black. An EDX analysis of a smalt particle also shows that the smalt is discolored. The macro-XRF also revealed many extra small alterations that Rembrandt made to the painting, so-called pentimenti. Many or most pentimenti had already been discovered by the Rembrandt Research Project when the x-ray was made of *The Night Watch* in the 1970s. The feathers, for instance, on the helmet of this militia man, which Rembrandt later decided to paint out, and that they were quite colorful is evidenced by these macro x-ray maps for iron, copper, and mercury, associated with yellow earth, azurite, and vermilion. The scans also provided a lot of information about the extent and the nature of the retouching carried out in the past. Here we see the elemental map for manganese associated with the pigment umber that was used in the fillings and the retouching of the damages done in 1976. Fortunately, umber is not a pigment we encounter in Rembrandt's paint layers. This is a detail of the scan, and here is a visible light detail of what the 1976 retouching of one of the restored slashes in the area above the dog looks like today. I now want to return to the second document I mentioned, the Treatment Decision document. From the start of the project, it was important to establish a clear decision-making process with regard to the treatment of the painting, given the enormous scale of the project, the complexity involved in treating a large format painting in the galleries, and the large number of stakeholders and sponsors with different expectations, including the fact that the painting does not belong to the Rijksmuseum, but to the City of Amsterdam. To assist in the process, the following decision criteria were determined as being the most important for the painting: long-term stability, visual appearance, meaning and authenticity, historicity, visibility of the painting to museum visitors, duration of the treatment, budget, and public engagement outreach also influenced the process. Various decision-making tools, decision tree models, and flow charts were used to explore the pros and cons and the numerous steps and small decisions that are part of each treatment option. After careful deliberation, three treatment options were considered viable: a long-term monitoring protocol based on the image and data gathered during the research phase; a second option consisting of long-term monitoring as well as structural treatment; and a third option that included the first two options, as well as varnish removal and restoration, which sought to address preventative, structural, and aesthetic aspects. Option A was dismissed quite soon in the process, and further distinction was made between treatment that was considered urgent, the structural treatment, and treatment that was considered desirable in the future. The possibility of a phased stepwise approach was also evaluated. We also provided information to the advisory team and to the steering committee about lessons learned from other large-scale conservation projects that took place in museum galleries around the world. After consultation with the advisory committee, the decision to start the structural treatment was taken in September of 2021. Once the decision was taken, preparations for the structural treatment got underway to investigate the adhesion between the lining canvas and the original canvas. An optical research technique called shearography, developed by a team of researchers from the Technical University in Delft, was carried out. For this, selected areas were investigated, including the area with the slashes in the costume of Banning Cocq, as well as areas considered to be healthy. Fortunately, results suggested that the lining is sound and well attached, and that the repairs that were carried out in 1975 are still stable. Micro textile testing of the fibers of the lining canvas was also carried out with the Technical University of Eindhoven, and the aging of the wax adhesives was also investigated. The causes of the deformation in the canvas were investigated, like I said, with the Technical University of Eindhoven. This false color height map taken in 2019 during the research phase clearly shows the deformations. The red areas are actually closer to the viewer, and the blue areas are further back. It was also clear to see that the deformations along the left and the right edges were associated with the points of attachment. In considering the various options for the structural treatment, lining the painting anew, a very invasive and not risk-free option, was quickly rejected, also on the basis that the 1975 lining and wax resin adhesive was in good, flexible condition. Therefore, re-stretching the painting gently, and in this case, replacing the wooden stretcher seemed to really be the best option. In fact, we had good experience with retentioning using a spring system developed by the conservator Antonio Iaccarino Idelson in Rome for tensioning, especially for large format paintings. In 2012, two large wax resin lined paintings in the Rijksmuseum collection were treated together with Antonio Iaccarino Idelson, and these treatments were done almost 10 years ago, and the tension in these paintings remains very good. Much attention was given to the design of the new aluminum strainer, which had a double outer profile in order to be light but also rigid. Fair modeling was carried out to determine the dimensions of these profiles and to ensure the strainer was strong enough to bear the weight of the painting. Non-structural detachable crossbars were incorporated into the design in order to attach backing boards. The configuration of the springs, shown in this detail at the right, with the springs on the front of the strainer and easily accessible for adjustment and monitoring, was also incorporated. It was important for the strainer to be as narrow as possible, as the new frame that the painting will receive had to cover all this hardware. After more than two years of research, the structural treatment was actually carried out in just two months, from the 18th of January until the 17th of March. The positive impact on the visual appearance of the painting was significant, much better than expected. The painting was treated face down on a custom-designed work table inside the glasshouse. Some 514 tacks that were used to attach the painting to the wooden stretcher were removed to release the canvas from the stretcher. Once the canvas was released, the painting just relaxed over the course of a few days. In fact, there was no additional heat or really weight needed in order for the painting to relax. However, the tacking edges, this is what we see here in this detail, were actually quite deformed and stiff. In fact, it required several weeks to reduce the wax resin and to flatten the tacking edges in order to make a seam in which we could insert the stainless steel rod for the spring system. Here we see a detail of the spring system of that casing that was made in the right image and the springs on the front of the strainer. The treatment was completed on the 17th of March, and like I said, the appearance of the painting is significantly improved as a result of it. Currently, the treatment options are being reevaluated as to whether to continue with a varnish removal. I think the conservators are tending towards delaying the cleaning cycle a bit longer, as the painting appears to be in much better condition than anticipated. While varnish removal would improve the visual appearance of the painting, the cleaning of a cracked and damaged surface that has undergone excessive cleaning in the past is never straightforward. Detailed cleaning tests have been carried out. Here we see, to give you a better impression of the surface of the painting, a detail here, saturated on the left and not saturated on the right, to give you a sense of the degree of cracking and actually the grayness of the varnish. During the research phase, detailed cleaning tests were carried out, and this is a cross-section that was actually taken, which shows that underneath the modern varnishes are remains of calcium oxalate-rich varnish residues that are on the painting. It's actually these calcium oxalate-rich varnish residues that contribute to the gray appearance of the painting. It's not necessarily the yellowness of the varnish. Here we see a detail taken after the removal of the upper varnishes, just showing you the impact of those old varnish remains on the surface, as seen in the image on the right. In terms of the next steps, we will be continuing with the research on the feasibility of removing these older varnish residues, and the calcium and lead-rich crusts using a gel system is going to be explored starting in September. We will also be optimizing the use of Evolon and solvent, carrying out tests in order to optimize solvent penetration, exposure time, and clearance issues associated with the use of a gel for removing the old varnish remains and the salt crusts. In conclusion, in terms of research results, I think, like I mentioned, the discovery of the light chalk-rich painted sketch is certainly one of the most significant findings. Also, the fact that the painting had a rich and more diverse palette, the additional pentimenti, that the brown areas originally had more color, this significant abrasion where underlying sketch areas are exposed in many areas of the painting, that the discolored smalt has led to significant darkening, and also what I just talked about—these fragmentary older varnish remains and oxalate-rich crust formation below the modern varnishes, which has led to this loss of contrast and grayish appearance of the painting. To sum up, of course, this in-depth research also leads to and has the ability to lead to opposing new questions. Certainly, to what extent have these past treatments and interventions, along with the pigment degradation, changed the original intended appearance of this carefully constructed optical effects that Rembrandt intended for *The Night Watch* needs to be asked. There are, of course, many people to thank here: the entire research team that also includes our advisory committee, our interns, our photographers, and also our research partners with whom we do a collaboration. And of course, our sponsors who have been very generous in supporting the research and the treatment of the painting. With that, I would like to conclude, and thank you for your attention. --- - Thank you, Petria, for this wonderful talk. We should take a few questions. So I'm going to invite Jessica to come to the podium, and we should all sit. - So, wonderful. To start with, does the audience have any pressing questions they'd like to kick off with? Great. Yeah, any. - Hi, thank you for this talk. If I recall on one of the slides, when you were talking about the factors going into your decision-making, one of them was public engagement. This seems as if this was such an incredibly public project, and I would just love to hear more about how concerns related to public engagement figured into, or figures into the decision-making processes. - Thank you for your question. Of course, the public is a very important stakeholder in the whole project. There are treatments being carried out in the galleries. Right from the beginning, it was very important to engage our education department and also our whole communication team and to come up with a strategy and a plan for the whole project. I don't know whether you've had the opportunity to look at our website, but there are regular updates on our website, and that's carried out by our social media team. We supply the information, but there's a whole, like I said, the project is really museum-wide. It involves almost every single department in the museum. In a way, I mean, this is our most iconic painting, but I think the museum thought of it as creating a blueprint for how treatments should be carried out. When you have the opportunity, when you have so much financial support for a project, it gives you the opportunity to really rethink how one normally proceeds. - I think we have a question from our Zoom audience. - [Audience Member] So can you hear me? This is kind of following on from public engagement and access. There is a question about, will this painting ever travel, for example, to The Met or to Yale? - Well, I could, it's easy to answer that one. Let us know. (laughs) No, I don't think. I think, you know, the museum was actually built for the painting. The *Night Watch* gallery in the Hall of Honor was actually built for the painting. There's just these sort of illusions, Gothic illusions, to almost like a temple or a church-like enclosure. So I don't think the painting would ever travel. Not because of its instability, but just because it has to be at home. - Any other questions in the audience? - Oh, here. Do you want to? - Oh, if you can come down to the microphone, that would be great. - Thank you. That was fascinating. I wondered, it's an incredible array of techniques that you've thrown in this painting. Is there anything, there must be things, that still you couldn't find or answer? Is there something that really stands out for you as like the frustrating thing that all of this can't actually get to? - Yeah. The answer is yes. Of course, we build on the research that was carried out in the past, the research that was done by the Rembrandt Research Project in the 1970s. I mean, we stand on the shoulders of that fantastic research that was carried out by that team. At the time, like I said, I think the x-ray of the painting was made in the 1970s. We are very fortunate today that we have this huge range of new technology, imaging technology, and really sort of in-depth scientific techniques, including Simpleton-based analysis that we can do on paint samples. But for instance, one of the burning issues in the painting is these calcium oxalate-rich varnish residues below the modern varnishes. Now we've done high-resolution UV photography, but you cannot image these residues even in a high-resolution UV photograph. You have to actually remove the modern varnishes and then take a new UV photograph in order to be able to capture, to image these underlying old varnish remains. So this has a huge impact on the treatment going forward, because how does one make a time estimate for how long it would actually take to remove those residues if you don't even know if it's over the entire surface, or is it only in the dark areas of the painting, or is it just localized in a few areas? So this is something we still don't know despite two and a half years of research. This is actually one of the reasons why it has been decided to go forward with some more research, so that we're actually going to focus on these crusts. I mean, as you know, these crusts have come up in the last probably 10 years, and they're incredibly problematic because you can't remove them with organic solvents, and often the time they're really intimately attached to the paint. So you really have to investigate them before you proceed with the treatment. So that is the thing that is very current for me, but that frustration. - Oh, yes. Our Zoom audience. - [Audience Member] Well, there's a question about samples. If you could explain a little bit more about how you take the samples that you showed today and whether that causes any damage to the painting. - Yeah, sure. I think certainly, the development of all the non-invasive imaging techniques in the last 10 years has been a great step forward because it means that you can just take what we call selected paint samples. We really only go to sampling when we feel we can't answer the question using the imaging techniques. How we actually do that is actually quite straightforward with a very, with a scalpel, very much like a surgeon does. You're using a stereo-microscope. When we were taking samples from the painting, we actually had the stereo microscope up on the hydraulic lift platform, you saw it in a couple of the images there. That was a whole challenge in itself because if you're doing that with a team of three or four people, how do you record your observation, where everyone could access it? How do you record the coordinates on such a big painting? You don't get out with your tape measure and measure the X, Y. We actually had to develop a digital grid coordinate system so that when we took a sample, we could zoom in, and every little, I think we did it on a half-centimeter grid system, so that we could then just digitally look up what the coordinate of the location was. These are sort of things you don't even really think about when you're working on such a large format painting. Taking the sample itself requires, of course, experience. You have to have a sense of how hard to push when you take a sample, but again, you're using a microscope, you have experience, you generally go for an area of damage, you don't sample an area that's intact. You usually tend to insert the scalpel into a crack, into an existing crack on an edge of an existing loss. In the case of the *Night Watch*, because the varnish, the 1976 varnish on the painting was actually quite a tough layer, you had to actually sort of pre-score. You had to actually score that varnish in order to help your scalpel penetrate. When you take a sample, you really want to capture the information you're looking for. Hopefully also maybe some information in the ground as well. I think what I often find with students is that they're often too hesitant, and they will end up taking too tiny a sample. In fact, then the activity becomes lost. It's really a case where you have to build experience, and with each painting. I mean, I have a lot of experience taking samples from Rembrandt's paintings, and generally, they're not difficult to sample. I think the worst type of paintings are ones that are very crumbly, but in those cases, you always tend to sample from an edge or from a big loss. I've probably gone on too long, but. - If you can come down to the microphone. - Thank you very much for your wonderful talk. I would love to know, just out of my own curiosity, how would one go about relining a painting of this scale? What are the basic steps, like you mentioned, that was one of the things that was considered in the process, relining the painting, maybe for a fourth time, I think I saw there were three previous relinings. How would that be done today in an ideal kind of way? - Well, I think it's difficult to say that there's an ideal way of lining a painting because different countries, different collections have a different approach to lining canvases. For instance, in Italy and Spain, the majority of paintings are lined with starch paste or with starch, whereas in the Netherlands, the majority of our paintings have wax resin linings. Now that is a method that was developed in the 1850s. In fact, the *Night Watch* was actually the first wax resin lined painting. So that was carried out by Nicholas Hotman in 1851. The next lining was in 1946, right after the war or 1945, I think. The last one, like I said, was 1975. We know that there was also a previous lining carried out probably in the 18th century. So how would one do that today? That really depends on the type of lining that is on the painting. It also depends on the size of the painting. I think at the moment, there is this initiative for the Getty Museum, it's called Conserving Canvas. It's really looking at this particular question because so often in museums, when one has to line a painting, conservers tend to rely on their own experience or their own tradition rather than a critical evaluation of the methods available. This is where there's still a lot to learn about what is the ideal adhesive in this particular case. This is one of the things that we also, in the case of the *Night Watch*, really tried to investigate, to come to a better understanding of the lining. We wanted to make a prognosis that the lining would continue to support the painting for the next 100 years or even more. So that was for me, the question I posed to the Technical University of Eindhoven. If we are going to do this re-tensioning using a spring system, keeping the wax resin lining, it's important to know that that will still support the painting. I showed you from the images of the original canvas that the original canvas is actually quite degraded. There are a number of tears and cuts, and actually because of that oil impregnation, when you look at small exposed losses in the paint, you see that the original linen is actually quite degraded, very black, in fact. This is ongoing research. Although we've been doing two and a half years of research, I imagine this will continue for another couple of years to really come to a much better, in-depth understanding of these kinds of questions. So it's not a simple answer. There's a lot of information that you can find out there about linings, but I think it is something in America, there are also different traditions, a lot of the tendency to use more synthetic linings. So, I think the simple answer is that different countries, different institutions have different traditions. But it's still being carried out, though not to any extent that it was in the past. I think certainly in the beginning of the 20th century, linings were almost done as a kind of preventative measure. That is certainly no longer the case. Any kind of invasive conservation treatment is really carefully evaluated these days. It's not something one would undertake quickly. - [Audience Member] Thank you. - [Jessica] We have another question via Zoom? - [Audience Member] So this is a technology question. There's an attendee that says, "I think you mentioned AI. Can you explain what role artificial intelligence played in the project?" - Right. Yeah, I did mention that. It was related mostly to an aspect that I didn't present here. I did mention, for instance, that all four edges of the painting had been cut down in the past, in the early 18th century. In the summer of 2020, we had a presentation of the painting in its original format. For that, our senior imaging scientist, Robert Erdmann, used artificial intelligence to actually create prints of digital images of the missing edges. I think if you are interested in this, on our website, there is one of the stories related to that. You can actually listen to an interview of him explaining exactly how that was done. It was very well received, essentially the way it was done because these reconstructions on the left edge, it's approximately 50 centimeters that's missing, top and bottom about 10. Like I said, that was printed onto paper and then attached to the back or to the side of the painting. It wasn't actually on the front of the painting. But from a distance, it visually worked really well. I think it made such an impression of what had originally the original size of the painting. Sorry, I can't go into the in-depth details, but I recommend that she looks at our website for that. - Petria, I was blown away, and I'm sure the team was as well, at the chalk-rich oil sketch and the revelation that that was there, but not visible to the Rembrandt Research team, for example, because macro x-ray fluorescence technology did not exist for them. I wonder, is there, based on that sort of discovery, a push to have a new Rembrandt Research Project? Or is this, I mean, it's a big undertaking, but it's very tempting. I mean, I think of course, Ernst van de Wetering passed away last year, very sadly. I think Rembrandt scholarship has evolved, and I think even every art historian these days would agree that certainly material analysis has a role to play in the investigation of Rembrandt paintings. I think we do a lot of research in Rembrandt paintings. I didn't know, I think I kind of see this as a sort of a network of Rembrandt scholars out there that we're in contact with. When we're investigating certain paintings, there is somebody who is specialized in provenance history, or there's somebody who is specialized in related drawings, or somebody who is specialized in, and it's actually this sort of important, this network of people that is actually, I think, will replace a sort of the Rembrandt Research Project idea. I think this provides a sustainable model where young researchers can also participate in this. So I think this is my vision in any way for it, and a little bit of what is already happening because we get asked to look at a lot of Rembrandt workshop paintings or Rembrandt paintings. In the past, it was often just in the blink of just in the look, kind of sure could actually tell whether it was a Rembrandt or not. I think these days, it actually requires a little bit more in-depth analysis. - We have a very team of, yes, wonderful. - [Irma] Oh, there's one question. - I'm just curious about the data. How will you be able to make that data available, say in 10 years, 15 years when technology is going to change so much of this sometimes gets lost? - Yeah, no, of course. I mentioned we have a huge amount of data that has been generated out of this project. This is something, we have a department called, it's actually their responsibility, (chuckles) but of course all the data is backed up on the museum server. It has also been a huge challenge during the project. How do we share the data? How do we view the data? How do we work on the data together as a team? Because we have probably about 20, the *Night Watch*, there's a sort of a core team of 20 curators, conservators, and scientists. We work in a shared digital environment through SharePoint where all the data is in standard folders, and everyone has access to those folders. That is how we actually sort of share the data on a sort of a regular basis. But I can imagine, at a certain point, we really want to make everything available to the public, not just in the way we're doing at the moment through newsletters or through images, but actually for a more scholarly community. I think that is a development that will happen in the next, certainly within the next 10 years. If you look at the kind of like arches what's been developed at the Getty, which is available to a lot of institutions, I imagine that it will be made available. It is something certainly that our museum, our director supports, but the infrastructure has to be there. We're still dealing with legacy databases in the Rijksmuseum. I think a lot of museums are in that position. So it's, I think in terms, we're still in that kind of transition period of how to go forward in terms of that. - [Jessica] I think we have another question from Zoom. - [Audience Member] So this is a technology question. There's an attendee that says, "I think you mentioned AI. Can you explain what role artificial intelligence played in the project?" - Right. Yeah, I did mention that. It was related mostly to an aspect that I didn't present here. I did mention, for instance, that all four edges of the painting had been cut down in the past, in the early 18th century. In the summer of 2020, we had a presentation of the painting in its original format. For that, our senior imaging scientist, Robert Erdmann, used artificial intelligence to actually create prints of digital images of the missing edges. I think if you are interested in this, on our website, there is one of the stories related to that. You can actually listen to an interview of him explaining exactly how that was done. It was very well received, essentially the way it was done because these reconstructions on the left edge, it's approximately 50 centimeters that's missing, top and bottom about 10. Like I said, that was printed onto paper and then attached to the back or to the side of the painting. It wasn't actually on the front of the painting. But from a distance, it visually worked really well. I think it made such an impression of what had originally the original size of the painting. Sorry, I can't go into the in-depth details, but I recommend that she looks at our website for that. - Petria, I was blown away, and I'm sure the team was as well, at the chalk-rich oil sketch and the revelation that that was there, but not visible to the Rembrandt Research team, for example, because macro x-ray fluorescence technology did not exist for them. I wonder, is there, based on that sort of discovery, a push to have a new Rembrandt Research Project? Or is this, I mean, it's a big undertaking, but it's very tempting. I mean, I think of course, Ernst van de Wetering passed away last year, very sadly. I think Rembrandt scholarship has evolved, and I think even every art historian these days would agree that certainly material analysis has a role to play in the investigation of Rembrandt paintings. I think we do a lot of research in Rembrandt paintings. I didn't know, I think I kind of see this as a sort of a network of Rembrandt scholars out there that we're in contact with. When we're investigating certain paintings, there is somebody who is specialized in provenance history, or there's somebody who is specialized in related drawings, or somebody who is specialized in, and it's actually this sort of important, this network of people that is actually, I think, will replace a sort of the Rembrandt Research Project idea. I think this provides a sustainable model where young researchers can also participate in this. So I think this is my vision in any way for it, and a little bit of what is already happening because we get asked to look at a lot of Rembrandt workshop paintings or Rembrandt paintings. In the past, it was often just in the blink of just in the look, kind of sure could actually tell whether it was a Rembrandt or not. I think these days, it actually requires a little bit more in-depth analysis. - We have a very team of, yes, wonderful. - [Irma] Oh, there's one question. - I'm just curious about the data. How will you be able to make that data available, say in 10 years, 15 years when technology is going to change so much of this sometimes gets lost? - Yeah, no, of course. I mentioned we have a huge amount of data that has been generated out of this project. This is something, we have a department called, it's actually their responsibility, (chuckles) but of course all the data is backed up on the museum server. It has also been a huge challenge during the project. How do we share the data? How do we view the data? How do we work on the data together as a team? Because we have probably about 20, the *Night Watch*, there's a sort of a core team of 20 curators, conservators, and scientists. We work in a shared digital environment through SharePoint where all the data is in standard folders, and everyone has access to those folders. That is how we actually sort of share the data on a sort of a regular basis. But I can imagine, at a certain point, we really want to make everything available to the public, not just in the way we're doing at the moment through newsletters or through images, but actually for a more scholarly community. I think that is a development that will happen in the next, certainly within the next 10 years. If you look at the kind of like arches what's been developed at the Getty, which is available to a lot of institutions, I imagine that it will be made available. It is something certainly that our museum, our director supports, but the infrastructure has to be there. We're still dealing with legacy databases in the Rijksmuseum. I think a lot of museums are in that position. So it's, I think in terms, we're still in that kind of transition period of how to go forward in terms of that. - [Jessica] I think we have another question from Zoom. - [Audience Member] So this is a technology question. There's an attendee that says, "I think you mentioned AI. Can you explain what role artificial intelligence played in the project?" - Right. Yeah, I did mention that. It was related mostly to an aspect that I didn't present here. I did mention, for instance, that all four edges of the painting had been cut down in the past, in the early 18th century. In the summer of 2020, we had a presentation of the painting in its original format. For that, our senior imaging scientist, Robert Erdmann, used artificial intelligence to actually create prints of digital images of the missing edges. I think if you are interested in this, on our website, there is one of the stories related to that. You can actually listen to an interview of him explaining exactly how that was done. It was very well received, essentially the way it was done because these reconstructions on the left edge, it's approximately 50 centimeters that's missing, top and bottom about 10. Like I said, that was printed onto paper and then attached to the back or to the side of the painting. It wasn't actually on the front of the painting. But from a distance, it visually worked really well. I think it made such an impression of what had originally the original size of the painting. Sorry, I can't go into the in-depth details, but I recommend that she looks at our website for that. - Petria, I was blown away, and I'm sure the team was as well, at the chalk-rich oil sketch and the revelation that that was there, but not visible to the Rembrandt Research team, for example, because macro x-ray fluorescence technology did not exist for them. I wonder, is there, based on that sort of discovery, a push to have a new Rembrandt Research Project? Or is this, I mean, it's a big undertaking, but it's very tempting. I mean, I think of course, Ernst van de Wetering passed away last year, very sadly. I think Rembrandt scholarship has evolved, and I think even every art historian these days would agree that certainly material analysis has a role to play in the investigation of Rembrandt paintings. I think we do a lot of research in Rembrandt paintings. I didn't know, I think I kind of see this as a sort of a network of Rembrandt scholars out there that we're in contact with. When we're investigating certain paintings, there is somebody who is specialized in provenance history, or there's somebody who is specialized in related drawings, or somebody who is specialized in, and it's actually this sort of important, this network of people that is actually, I think, will replace a sort of the Rembrandt Research Project idea. I think this provides a sustainable model where young researchers can also participate in this. So I think this is my vision in any way for it, and a little bit of what is already happening because we get asked to look at a lot of Rembrandt workshop paintings or Rembrandt paintings. In the past, it was often just in the blink of just in the look, kind of sure could actually tell whether it was a Rembrandt or not. I think these days, it actually requires a little bit more in-depth analysis. - We have a very team of, yes, wonderful. - [Irma] Oh, there's one question. - I'm just curious about the data. How will you be able to make that data available, say in 10 years, 15 years when technology is going to change so much of this sometimes gets lost? - Yeah, no, of course. I mentioned we have a huge amount of data that has been generated out of this project. This is something, we have a department called, it's actually their responsibility, (chuckles) but of course all the data is backed up on the museum server. It has also been a huge challenge during the project. How do we share the data? How do we view the data? How do we work on the data together as a team? Because we have probably about 20, the *Night Watch*, there's a sort of a core team of 20 curators, conservators, and scientists. We work in a shared digital environment through SharePoint where all the data is in standard folders, and everyone has access to those folders. That is how we actually sort of share the data on a sort of a regular basis. But I can imagine, at a certain point, we really want to make everything available to the public, not just in the way we're doing at the moment through newsletters or through images, but actually for a more scholarly community. I think that is a development that will happen in the next, certainly within the next 10 years. If you look at the kind of like arches what's been developed at the Getty, which is available to a lot of institutions, I imagine that it will be made available. It is something certainly that our museum, our director supports, but the infrastructure has to be there. We're still dealing with legacy databases in the Rijksmuseum. I think a lot of museums are in that position. So it's, I think in terms, we're still in that kind of transition period of how to go forward in terms of that. - [Jessica] I think we have another question from Zoom. - [Audience Member] So this is a technology question. There's an attendee that says, "I think you mentioned AI. Can you explain what role artificial intelligence played in the project?" - Right. Yeah, I did mention that. It was related mostly to an aspect that I didn't present here. I did mention, for instance, that all four edges of the painting had been cut down in the past, in the early 18th century. In the summer of 2020, we had a presentation of the painting in its original format. For that, our senior imaging scientist, Robert Erdmann, used artificial intelligence to actually create prints of digital images of the missing edges. I think if you are interested in this, on our website, there is one of the stories related to that. You can actually listen to an interview of him explaining exactly how that was done. It was very well received, essentially the way it was done because these reconstructions on the left edge, it's approximately 50 centimeters that's missing, top and bottom about 10. Like I said, that was printed onto paper and then attached to the back or to the side of the painting. It wasn't actually on the front of the painting. But from a distance, it visually worked really well. I think it made such an impression of what had originally the original size of the painting. Sorry, I can't go into the in-depth details, but I recommend that she looks at our website for that. - Petria, I was blown away, and I'm sure the team was as well, at the chalk-rich oil sketch and the revelation that that was there, but not visible to the Rembrandt Research team, for example, because macro x-ray fluorescence technology did not exist for them. I wonder, is there, based on that sort of discovery, a push to have a new Rembrandt Research Project? Or is this, I mean, it's a big undertaking, but it's very tempting. I mean, I think of course, Ernst van de Wetering passed away last year, very sadly. I think Rembrandt scholarship has evolved, and I think even every art historian these days would agree that certainly material analysis has a role to play in the investigation of Rembrandt paintings. I think we do a lot of research in Rembrandt paintings. I didn't know, I think I kind of see this as a sort of a network of Rembrandt scholars out there that we're in contact with. When we're investigating certain paintings, there is somebody who is specialized in provenance history, or there's somebody who is specialized in related drawings, or somebody who is specialized in, and it's actually this sort of important, this network of people that is actually, I think, will replace a sort of the Rembrandt Research Project idea. I think this provides a sustainable model where young researchers can also participate in this. So I think this is my vision in any way for it, and a little bit of what is already happening because we get asked to look at a lot of Rembrandt workshop paintings or Rembrandt paintings. In the past, it was often just in the blink of just in the look, kind of sure could actually tell whether it was a Rembrandt or not. I think these days, it actually requires a little bit more in-depth analysis. - We have a very team of, yes, wonderful. - [Irma] Oh, there's one question. - I'm just curious about the data. How will you be able to make that data available, say in 10 years, 15 years when technology is going to change so much of this sometimes gets lost? - Yeah, no, of course. I mentioned we have a huge amount of data that has been generated out of this project. This is something, we have a department called, it's actually their responsibility, (chuckles) but of course all the data is backed up on the museum server. It has also been a huge challenge during the project. How do we share the data? How do we view the data? How do we work on the data together as a team? Because we have probably about 20, the *Night Watch*, there's a sort of a core team of 20 curators, conservators, and scientists. We work in a shared digital environment through SharePoint where all the data is in standard folders, and everyone has access to those folders. That is how we actually sort of share the data on a sort of a regular basis. But I can imagine, at a certain point, we really want to make everything available to the public, not just in the way we're doing at the moment through newsletters or through images, but actually for a more scholarly community. I think that is a development that will happen in the next, certainly within the next 10 years. If you look at the kind of like arches what's been developed at the Getty, which is available to a lot of institutions, I imagine that it will be made available. It is something certainly that our museum, our director supports, but the infrastructure has to be there. We're still dealing with legacy databases in the Rijksmuseum. I think a lot of museums are in that position. So it's, I think in terms, we're still in that kind of transition period of how to go forward in terms of that. - [Jessica] I think we have another question from Zoom. - [Audience Member] So this is a technology question. There's an attendee that says, "I think you mentioned AI. Can you explain what role artificial intelligence played in the project?" - Right. Yeah, I did mention that. It was related mostly to an aspect that I didn't present here. I did mention, for instance, that all four edges of the painting had been cut down in the past, in the early 18th century. In the summer of 2020, we had a presentation of the painting in its original format. For that, our senior imaging scientist, Robert Erdmann, used artificial intelligence to actually create prints of digital images of the missing edges. I think if you are interested in this, on our website, there is one of the stories related to that. You can actually listen to an interview of him explaining exactly how that was done. It was very well received, essentially the way it was done because these reconstructions on the left edge, it's approximately 50 centimeters that's missing, top and bottom about 10. Like I said, that was printed onto paper and then attached to the back or to the side of the painting. It wasn't actually on the front of the painting. But from a distance, it visually worked really well. I think it made such an impression of what had originally the original size of the painting. Sorry, I can't go into the in-depth details, but I recommend that she looks at our website for that. - Petria, I was blown away, and I'm sure the team was as well, at the chalk-rich oil sketch and the revelation that that was there, but not visible to the Rembrandt Research team, for example, because macro x-ray fluorescence technology did not exist for them. I wonder, is there, based on that sort of discovery, a push to have a new Rembrandt Research Project? Or is this, I mean, it's a big undertaking, but it's very tempting. I mean, I think of course, Ernst van de Wetering passed away last year, very sadly. I think Rembrandt scholarship has evolved, and I think even every art historian these days would agree that certainly material analysis has a role to play in the investigation of Rembrandt paintings. I think we do a lot of research in Rembrandt paintings. I didn't know, I think I kind of see this as a sort of a network of Rembrandt scholars out there that we're in contact with. When we're investigating certain paintings, there is somebody who is specialized in provenance history, or there's somebody who is specialized in related drawings, or somebody who is specialized in, and it's actually this sort of important, this network of people that is actually, I think, will replace a sort of the Rembrandt Research Project idea. I think this provides a sustainable model where young researchers can also participate in this. So I think this is my vision in any way for it, and a little bit of what is already happening because we get asked to look at a lot of Rembrandt workshop paintings or Rembrandt paintings. In the past, it was often just in the blink of just in the look, kind of sure could actually tell whether it was a Rembrandt or not. I think these days, it actually requires a little bit more in-depth analysis. - We have a very team of, yes, wonderful. - [Irma] Oh, there's one question. - I'm just curious about the data. How will you be able to make that data available, say in 10 years, 15 years when technology is going to change so much of this sometimes gets lost? - Yeah, no, of course. I mentioned we have a huge amount of data that has been generated out of this project. This is something, we have a department called, it's actually their responsibility, (chuckles) but of course all the data is backed up on the museum server. It has also been a huge challenge during the project. How do we share the data? How do we view the data? How do we work on the data together as a team? Because we have probably about 20, the *Night Watch*, there's a sort of a core team of 20 curators, conservators, and scientists. We work in a shared digital environment through SharePoint where all the data is in standard folders, and everyone has access to those folders. That is how we actually sort of share the data on a sort of a regular basis. But I can imagine, at a certain point, we really want to make everything available to the public, not just in the way we're doing at the moment through newsletters or through images, but actually for a more scholarly community. I think that is a development that will happen in the next, certainly within the next 10 years. If you look at the kind of like arches what's been developed at the Getty, which is available to a lot of institutions, I imagine that it will be made available. It is something certainly that our museum, our director supports, but the infrastructure has to be there. We're still dealing with legacy databases in the Rijksmuseum. I think a lot of museums are in that position. So it's, I think in terms, we're still in that kind of transition period of how to go forward in terms of that. - [Jessica] I think we have another question from Zoom. - [Audience Member] So this is a technology question. There's an attendee that says, "I think you mentioned AI. Can you explain what role artificial intelligence played in the project?" - Right. Yeah, I did mention that. It was related mostly to an aspect that I didn't present here. I did mention, for instance, that all four edges of the painting had been cut down in the past, in the early 18th century. In the summer of 2020, we had a presentation of the painting in its original format. For that, our senior imaging scientist, Robert Erdmann, used artificial intelligence to actually create prints of digital images of the missing edges. I think if you are interested in this, on our website, there is one of the stories related to that. You can actually listen to an interview of him explaining exactly how that was done. It was very well received, essentially the way it was done because these reconstructions on the left edge, it's approximately 50 centimeters that's missing, top and bottom about 10. Like I said, that was printed onto paper and then attached to the back or to the side of the painting. It wasn't actually on the front of the painting. But from a distance, it visually worked really well. I think it made such an impression of what had originally the original size of the painting. Sorry, I can't go into the in-depth details, but I recommend that she looks at our website for that. - Petria, I was blown away, and I'm sure the team was as well, at the chalk-rich oil sketch and the revelation that that was there, but not visible to the Rembrandt Research team, for example, because macro x-ray fluorescence technology did not exist for them. I wonder, is there, based on that sort of discovery, a push to have a new Rembrandt Research Project? Or is this, I mean, it's a big undertaking, but it's very tempting. I mean, I think of course, Ernst van de Wetering passed away last year, very sadly. I think Rembrandt scholarship has evolved, and I think even every art historian these days would agree that certainly material analysis has a role to play in the investigation of Rembrandt paintings. I think we do a lot of research in Rembrandt paintings. I didn't know, I think I kind of see this as a sort of a network of Rembrandt scholars out there that we're in contact with. When we're investigating certain paintings, there is somebody who is specialized in provenance history, or there's somebody who is specialized in related drawings, or somebody who is specialized in, and it's actually this sort of important, this network of people that is actually, I think, will replace a sort of the Rembrandt Research Project idea. I think this provides a sustainable model where young researchers can also participate in this. So I think this is my vision in any way for it, and a little bit of what is already happening because we get asked to look at a lot of Rembrandt workshop paintings or Rembrandt paintings. In the past, it was often just in the blink of just in the look, kind of sure could actually tell whether it was a Rembrandt or not. I think these days, it actually requires a little bit more in-depth analysis. - We have a very team of, yes, wonderful. - [Irma] Oh, there's one question. - I'm just curious about the data. How will you be able to make that data available, say in 10 years, 15 years when technology is going to change so much of this sometimes gets lost? - Yeah, no, of course. I mentioned we have a huge amount of data that has been generated out of this project. This is something, we have a department called, it's actually their responsibility, (chuckles) but of course all the data is backed up on the museum server. It has also been a huge challenge during the project. How do we share the data? How do we view the data? How do we work on the data together as a team? Because we have probably about 20, the *Night Watch*, there's a sort of a core team of 20 curators, conservators, and scientists. We work in a shared digital environment through SharePoint where all the data is in standard folders, and everyone has access to those folders. That is how we actually sort of share the data on a sort of a regular basis. But I can imagine, at a certain point, we really want to make everything available to the public, not just in the way we're doing at the moment through newsletters or through images, but actually for a more scholarly community. I think that is a development that will happen in the next, certainly within the next 10 years. If you look at the kind of like arches what's been developed at the Getty, which is available to a lot of institutions, I imagine that it will be made available. It is something certainly that our museum, our director supports, but the infrastructure has to be there. We're still dealing with legacy databases in the Rijksmuseum. I think a lot of museums are in that position. So it's, I think in terms, we're still in that kind of transition period of how to go forward in terms of that. - [Jessica] I think we have another question from Zoom. - [Audience Member] So this is a technology question. There's an attendee that says, "I think you mentioned AI. Can you explain what role artificial intelligence played in the project?" - Right. Yeah, I did mention that. It was related mostly to an aspect that I didn't present here. I did mention, for instance, that all four edges of the painting had been cut down in the past, in the early 18th century. In the summer of 2020, we had a presentation of the painting in its original format. For that, our senior imaging scientist, Robert Erdmann, used artificial intelligence to actually create prints of digital images of the missing edges. I think if you are interested in this, on our website, there is one of the stories related to that. You can actually listen to an interview of him explaining exactly how that was done. It was very well received, essentially the way it was done because these reconstructions on the left edge, it's approximately 50 centimeters that's missing, top and bottom about 10. Like I said, that was printed onto paper and then attached to the back or to the side of the painting. It wasn't actually on the front of the painting. But from a distance, it visually worked really well. I think it made such an impression of what had originally the original size of the painting. Sorry, I can't go into the in-depth details, but I recommend that she looks at our website for that. - Petria, I was blown away, and I'm sure the team was as well, at the chalk-rich oil sketch and the revelation that that was there, but not visible to the Rembrandt Research team, for example, because macro x-ray fluorescence technology did not exist for them. I wonder, is there, based on that sort of discovery, a push to have a new Rembrandt Research Project? Or is this, I mean, it's a big undertaking, but it's very tempting. I mean, I think of course, Ernst van de Wetering passed away last year, very sadly. I think Rembrandt scholarship has evolved, and I think even every art historian these days would agree that certainly material analysis has a role to play in the investigation of Rembrandt paintings. I think we do a lot of research in Rembrandt paintings. I didn't know, I think I kind of see this as a sort of a network of Rembrandt scholars out there that we're in contact with. When we're investigating certain paintings, there is somebody who is specialized in provenance history, or there's somebody who is specialized in related drawings, or somebody who is specialized in, and it's actually this sort of important, this network of people that is actually, I think, will replace a sort of the Rembrandt Research Project idea. I think this provides a sustainable model where young researchers can also participate in this. So I think this is my vision in any way for it, and a little bit of what is already happening because we get asked to look at a lot of Rembrandt workshop paintings or Rembrandt paintings. In the past, it was often just in the blink of just in the look, kind of sure could actually tell whether it was a Rembrandt or not. I think these days, it actually requires a little bit more in-depth analysis. - We have a very team of, yes, wonderful. - [Irma] Oh, there's one question. - I'm just curious about the data. How will you be able to make that data available, say in 10 years, 15 years when technology is going to change so much of this sometimes gets lost? - Yeah, no, of course. I mentioned we have a huge amount of data that has been generated out of this project. This is something, we have a department called, it's actually their responsibility, (chuckles) but of course all the data is backed up on the museum server. It has also been a huge challenge during the project. How do we share the data? How do we view the data? How do we work on the data together as a team? Because we have probably about 20, the *Night Watch*, there's a sort of a core team of 20 curators, conservators, and scientists. We work in a shared digital environment through SharePoint where all the data is in standard folders, and everyone has access to those folders. That is how we actually sort of share the data on a sort of a regular basis. But I can imagine, at a certain point, we really want to make everything available to the public, not just in the way we're doing at the moment through newsletters or through images, but actually for a more scholarly community. I think that is a development that will happen in the next, certainly within the next 10 years. If you look at the kind of like arches what's been developed at the Getty, which is available to a lot of institutions, I imagine that it will be made available. It is something certainly that our museum, our director supports, but the infrastructure has to be there. We're still dealing with legacy databases in the Rijksmuseum. I think a lot of museums are in that position. So it's, I think in terms, we're still in that kind of transition period of how to go forward in terms of that. - [Jessica] I think we have another question from Zoom. - [Audience Member] So this is a technology question. There's an attendee that says, "I think you mentioned AI. Can you explain what role artificial intelligence played in the project?" - Right. Yeah, I did mention that. It was related mostly to an aspect that I didn't present here. I did mention, for instance, that all four edges of the painting had been cut down in the past, in the early 18th century. In the summer of 2020, we had a presentation of the painting in its original format. For that, our senior imaging scientist, Robert Erdmann, used artificial intelligence to actually create prints of digital images of the missing edges. I think if you are interested in this, on our website, there is one of the stories related to that. You can actually listen to an interview of him explaining exactly how that was done. It was very well received, essentially the way it was done because these reconstructions on the left edge, it's approximately 50 centimeters that's missing, top and bottom about 10. Like I said, that was printed onto paper and then attached to the back or to the side of the painting. It wasn't actually on the front of the painting. But from a distance, it visually worked really well. I think it made such an impression of what had originally the original size of the painting. Sorry, I can't go into the in-depth details, but I recommend that she looks at our website for that. - Petria, I was blown away, and I'm sure the team was as well, at the chalk-rich oil sketch and the revelation that that was there, but not visible to the Rembrandt Research team, for example, because macro x-ray fluorescence technology did not exist for them. I wonder, is there, based on that sort of discovery, a push to have a new Rembrandt Research Project? Or is this, I mean, it's a big undertaking, but it's very tempting. I mean, I think of course, Ernst van de Wetering passed away last year, very sadly. I think Rembrandt scholarship has evolved, and I think even every art historian these days would agree that certainly material analysis has a role to play in the investigation of Rembrandt paintings. I think we do a lot of research in Rembrandt paintings. I didn't know, I think I kind of see this as a sort of a network of Rembrandt scholars out there that we're in contact with. When we're investigating certain paintings, there is somebody who is specialized in provenance history, or there's somebody who is specialized in related drawings, or somebody who is specialized in, and it's actually this sort of important, this network of people that is actually, I think, will replace a sort of the Rembrandt Research Project idea. I think this provides a sustainable model where young researchers can also participate in this. So I think this is my vision in any way for it, and a little bit of what is already happening because we get asked to look at a lot of Rembrandt workshop paintings or Rembrandt paintings. In the past, it was often just in the blink of just in the look, kind of sure could actually tell whether it was a Rembrandt or not. I think these days, it actually requires a little bit more in-depth analysis. - We have a very team of, yes, wonderful. - [Irma] Oh, there's one question. - I'm just curious about the data. How will you be able to make that data available, say in 10 years, 15 years when technology is going to change so much of this sometimes gets lost? - Yeah, no, of course. I mentioned we have a huge amount of data that has been generated out of this project. This is something, we have a department called, it's actually their responsibility, (chuckles) but of course all the data is backed up on the museum server. It has also been a huge challenge during the project. How do we share the data? How do we view the data? How do we work on the data together as a team? Because we have probably about 20, the *Night Watch*, there's a sort of a core team of 20 curators, conservators, and scientists. We work in a shared digital environment through SharePoint where all the data is in standard folders, and everyone has access to those folders. That is how we actually sort of share the data on a sort of a regular basis. But I can imagine, at a certain point, we really want to make everything available to the public, not just in the way we're doing at the moment through newsletters or through images, but actually for a more scholarly community. I think that is a development that will happen in the next, certainly within the next 10 years. If you look at the kind of like arches what's been developed at the Getty, which is available to a lot of institutions, I imagine that it will be made available. It is something certainly that our museum, our director supports, but the infrastructure has to be there. We're still dealing with legacy databases in the Rijksmuseum. I think a lot of museums are in that position. So it's, I think in terms, we're still in that kind of transition period of how to go forward in terms of that. - [Jessica] I think we have another question from Zoom. - [Audience Member] So this is a technology question. There's an attendee that says, "I think you mentioned AI. Can you explain what role artificial intelligence played in the project?" - Right. Yeah, I did mention that. It was related mostly to an aspect that I didn't present here. I did

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